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Eli Manning and the Hall of Fame

Let’s worry about axes and labels later. For now, take a look at the graph below. The red dots represent Hall of Fame quarterbacks (or players not yet eligible but very likely to wind up in Canton). The blue dots represent non-HOF quarterbacks. The black dot? That’s Eli Manning.

hof

Okay, so what the heck is this chart? What it’s *not*, is the most sophisticated way to measure the value of a quarterback. Instead, it’s a quick-and-dirty method I calculated to measure quarterback dominance.

  • Step 1) Calculate each quarterback’s ANY/A for each season of his career where he had enough pass attempts to qualify for the passing title (14 attempts per team game). ANY/A, of course, is calculated as follows: (Passing Yards + PassTDs * 20 – INTs * 45 – Sack Yards Lost) / (Pass Attempts + Sacks).
  • Step 2) For each quarterback, award him 10 points if he led the league [1]For purposes of this post, I have excluded AAFC stats, but combined the AFL and NFL as one league. in ANY/A, 9 points if he finished 2nd, 8 points if he finished 3rd, … and 1 point if he finished 10th. A quarterback receives 0 points if he does not finish in the top 10 in ANY/A or does not have enough pass attempts to qualify.
  • Step 3) For each quarterback, add his “points” from each season to produce a career grade.

So in the chart above, the Y-Axis is number of career points, with the X-Axis simply showing the number of quarterbacks on the list. I have included Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, and Aaron Rodgers as HOF quarterbacks for these purposes. This is not based on my subjective opinion of those players, but based on my subjective opinion of their likelihoods of enshrinement. The table below shows all 150 quarterbacks [2]Starting in 1937. Sorry, Arnie Herber, Dutch Clark, Paddy Driscoll, and Jimmy Conzelman. I also am excluding Ace Parker, who was more master of all trades than quarterback. with at least 6 “points” using this system. Again, this is not intended to be THE SYSTEM — if anything, this would be that — but a quick and dirty method that I think is very easy for us all to understand. We are looking at the best measure of efficiency, then we look at dominance, and we give points for finishing with higher ranks. Nothing more, nothing less. [3]And it’s not even adjusted for SOS, like the GQBOAT post.

RkQuarterbackptsHOF
1Peyton Manning102Likely
2Dan Marino96Yes
3Johnny Unitas90Yes
4Sammy Baugh89Yes
5Joe Montana83Yes
6Norm Van Brocklin81Yes
7Y.A. Tittle76Yes
8Fran Tarkenton71Yes
9.5Dan Fouts68Yes
9.5Brett Favre68Likely
11Bobby Layne67Yes
12Charlie Conerly65No
13Steve Young64Yes
14Roger Staubach55Yes
15Drew Brees54Likely
16Tom Brady52Likely
17Otto Graham51Yes
18Tommy Thompson50No
20Sid Luckman46Yes
20Bob Waterfield46Yes
20Ken Anderson46No
22Sonny Jurgensen45Yes
23Bart Starr44Yes
24Terry Bradshaw42Yes
25.5Len Dawson41Yes
25.5Philip Rivers41Not El.
28.5Troy Aikman39Yes
28.5Kurt Warner39Likely
28.5Aaron Rodgers39Likely
28.5Boomer Esiason39No
32Milt Plum37No
32John Hadl37No
32Trent Green37No
34John Brodie34No
35Billy Kilmer33No
36.5John Elway32Yes
36.5Daryle Lamonica32No
38.5Warren Moon31Yes
38.5Tony Romo31Not El.
41Tobin Rote30No
41Billy Wade30No
41Jim Hart30No
44.5Joe Namath29Yes
44.5Bob Griese29Yes
44.5Roman Gabriel29No
44.5Ben Roethlisberger29Not El.
47Ken Stabler27No
49Jim Kelly26Yes
49Parker Hall26No
49Craig Morton26No
51Earl Morrall25No
53.5Bobby Thomason24No
53.5Don Meredith24No
53.5Bert Jones24No
53.5Vinny Testaverde24No
56Dave Krieg23No
59George Blanda22Yes
59Paul Christman22No
59Rich Gannon22No
59Jeff Garcia22Not El.
59Daunte Culpepper22Not El.
62.5Jim Everett21No
62.5Mark Rypien21No
65Cecil Isbell20No
65Mark Brunell20Not El.
65Brad Johnson20No
68Norm Snead19No
68Brian Sipe19No
68Bernie Kosar19No
74Johnny Lujack18No
74Tom Flores18No
74Bill Nelsen18No
74Joe Ferguson18No
74Joe Theismann18No
74Steve McNair18No
74Matt Hasselbeck18Not El.
74Chad Pennington18Not El.
74Matt Schaub18Not El.
81Davey O'Brien17No
81Babe Parilli17No
81Bill Kenney17No
81Chris Chandler17No
81Donovan McNabb17Not El.
84.5Phil Simms16No
84.5Neil Lomax16No
88Charley Johnson15No
88Bobby Hebert15No
88Jeff George15No
88Jake Plummer15No
88Matt Ryan15Not El.
92.5Frank Ryan14No
92.5Greg Landry14No
92.5Vince Ferragamo14No
92.5Scott Mitchell14No
97Eddie LeBaron13No
97Jim Finks13No
97Lynn Dickey13No
97Danny White13No
97Carson Palmer13Not El.
101.5Archie Manning12No
101.5Steve Grogan12No
101.5Ron Jaworski12No
101.5Steve DeBerg12No
107Jim Hardy11No
107Ed Brown11No
107James Harris11No
107Steve Bartkowski11No
107Tony Eason11No
107Randall Cunningham11No
107Chris Miller11No
114Frank Filchock10No
114Greg Cook10No
114Jim Zorn10No
114Doug Williams10No
114Tommy Kramer10No
114Erik Kramer10No
114Nick Foles10Not El.
120.5Pat Haden9No
120.5Jay Schroeder9No
120.5Brian Griese9No
120.5Michael Vick9Not El.
120.5David Garrard9Not El.
120.5Russell Wilson9Not El.
129Ace Parker8No
129Fred Enke8No
129George Ratterman8No
129Rudy Bukich8No
129Ken O'Brien8No
129Neil O'Donnell8No
129Craig Erickson8No
129Kerry Collins8Not El.
129Doug Flutie8No
129Eli Manning8Not El.
129Robert Griffin8Not El.
140.5Bud Schwenk7No
140.5Frankie Sinkwich7No
140.5Adrian Burk7No
140.5Lamar McHan7No
140.5Cotton Davidson7No
140.5Virgil Carter7No
140.5Wade Wilson7No
140.5Steve Beuerlein7No
140.5Jim Harbaugh7No
140.5Jeff Hostetler7No
140.5Gus Frerotte7No
140.5Damon Huard7No
150Irv Comp6No
150Jack Jacobs6No
150Bob Celeri6No
150M.C. Reynolds6No
150Butch Songin6No
150Steve Bono6No
150Matthew Stafford6Not El.

So if this system is so simple, why use it? Because it does a pretty impressive job of actually identifying HOF quarterbacks. Consider:

  • The top 11 quarterbacks by this method are in the HOF or will be first ballot inductees.
  • Charlie Conerly is the highest-ranked quarterback not in the HOF. This methodology overstates Conerly’s career in a few ways, but he’s a legitimate borderline HOF contender, and it wouldn’t shock me if one day he’s nominated by the Seniors’ Committee. You can read some more thoughts about Conerly in the footnote, but the main reason he’s overrated here is that Conerly played in the era of 10-12 teams, so finishing in the top 10 was hardly the same accomplishment it is now. [4]He also split time with other quarterbacks from time to time, which means his efficiency numbers don’t account for the fact that he wasn’t putting up the gross value that you might think. … Continue reading
  • The next highest-ranked quarterback not in the HOF is Tommy Thompson, on the back of (what appeared to be) dominant years in ’41, ’42, ’47, and ’48. But while Thompson was a good quarterback, he’s very overrated in this analysis. In ’41 and ’42, only four quarterbacks qualified for the passing title each year, so finishing 2nd in ANY/A is not that impressive. His performances at the end of the decade were very good, but again, this was a different era and he was competing with only a handful of talented passers.
  • Only two other quarterbacks in the top 30 [5]Okay, Boomer Esiason is tied for the top 30. He’s also a borderline HOF candidate, IMO. are not in the HOF or likely HOFers. One is Ken Anderson, the unofficial holder of the “Best quarterback not in Canton” title. The other is Philip Rivers, who just might be into the “likely HOFer” category by the end of 2014. So of the top 30 quarterbacks, we’ve got two guys from the ’40s and ’50s who can “game” the system here, and two quarterbacks who are worthy HOFers. Every one else is in, or will be in, the Hall of Fame. That’s pretty good.
  • The next tier of 20 or so quarterbacks contains five of the final remaining Hall of Fame quarterbacks: John Elway (who was better than his numbers), Warren Moon (who was better than his numbers for a different reason), Joe Namath (also better than you think), Jim Kelly (okay, not my favorite statistical quarterback, but 4 straight Super Bowl appearances helped his candidacy) and Bob Griese (the forgotten HOF QB, and in any event, undoubtedly in the bottom tier of Hall of Fame quarterbacks). The last Hall of Fame quarterback is George Blanda (down at #58), who is as unique as any player in NFL history (which means you wouldn’t want to compare a modern quarterback to Blanda when determining whether he is a Hall of Famer).

Eli Manning? He’s down in the 130s. So no, his statistical profile is nowhere near that of a Hall of Fame quarterback. Frankly, it’s not even worth debating, except with the #2RINGZ crowd. Manning ranked 10th in ANY/A in 2012 [6]Note PFR lists Manning 12th in ANY/A that year, using 224 dropbacks instead of 224 pass attempts as the floor for qualifying. Since both San Francisco quarterbacks that year fit into that gray area, … Continue reading and 2009; he finished 5th in ANY/A in 2011, his one legitimately great statistical year. And that’s it.

No really, that’s it. He’s been slightly above average, average, or worse in every other year of his career. [7]2014 pending, of course. That’s far below quarterbacks like Trent Green and Tony Romo, and behind guys like Matt Hasselbeck and Donovan McNabb, too. But after all, Eli is the twitter era’s version of Jim Plunkett, right? [8]Let’s ignore the fact that Plunkett isn’t in the HOF, of course.

Not exactly. Plunkett was a legitimately outstanding playoff quarterback, to the extent a concept like that actually has any meaning. By placing more weight on the most important playoff games, Plunkett averaged 7.48 ANY/A in ten playoff games against defenses that allowed 4.36 ANY/A in the regular season. He was a top 10 playoff quarterback. Eli, on the other hand, has merely been pretty good. Manning checked in as the 33rd best playoff quarterback statistically, averaging 6.26 ANY/A against defenses that allowed an average of 5.28 ANY/A. Manning was good in the playoffs, but not historically dominant by any stretch. He also hasn’t been nearly as impressive as his brother in the postseason, despite popular opinion.

Will Eli Manning make the Hall of Fame one day? I have no idea. But if he does, he would stand out as a very odd outlier. Manning has had one great regular season, and that one season wasn’t even one of the top 100 quarterback seasons ever. The pro-Manning case takes about three seconds worth of thought, and it is entitled to be given weight commensurate with that level of thinking.

I will close with a fun searchable table, showing the number of “points” produced by each of the 150 quarterbacks in their 10 best seasons. For sorting purposes, I have included the year in the cell for each player. For Peyton Manning, for example, his best four years read 10.2012, 10.2006, 10.2005, and 10.2004. That means he received 10 points (i.e., finished first in ANY/A) in 2012, 2006, 2005, and 2004. Happy searching!

Quarterback12345678910
Peyton Manning10.201210.200610.200510.20049.20139.20039.19998.20076.20095.2008
Dan Marino10.199610.198410.19839.19948.19878.19867.19927.19916.19855.1988
Johnny Unitas10.196410.195810.195710.19569.19679.19659.19639.19598.19603.1966
Sammy Baugh10.194710.194510.194010.19379.19439.19428.19498.19448.19417.1948
Joe Montana10.19899.19879.19848.19827.19937.19857.19835.19945.19905.1981
Norm Van Brocklin10.195410.195210.19509.19609.19539.19518.19557.19576.19593.1958
Y.A. Tittle10.196310.19629.19579.19548.19536.19565.19615.19555.19525.1950
Fran Tarkenton9.19759.19737.19767.19746.19726.19706.19696.19676.19655.1964
Dan Fouts10.198510.19829.19839.19819.19788.19808.19794.19841.1974
Brett Favre10.19959.20019.19979.19968.20097.20076.19945.20043.20031.1998
Bobby Layne9.19587.19607.19547.19506.19556.19535.19565.19515.19494.1959
Charlie Conerly10.19599.19488.19577.19567.19557.19527.19495.19544.19581.1953
Steve Young10.199710.199410.199310.19929.19918.19967.1998
Roger Staubach10.197910.197810.197710.19716.19766.19733.1975
Drew Brees10.20099.20088.20118.20067.20046.20136.2012
Tom Brady10.201010.20079.20129.20115.20053.20093.20042.20031.2006
Otto Graham10.195510.19539.19528.19548.19516.1950
Tommy Thompson10.194910.19489.19479.19418.19424.1950
Sid Luckman10.194610.19439.19459.19448.1947
Bob Waterfield10.19519.19509.19468.19456.19494.1947
Ken Anderson10.198110.19759.19828.19745.19732.19772.1976
Sonny Jurgensen10.19678.19708.19617.19645.19624.19663.1969
Bart Starr10.19669.19646.19626.19575.19634.19654.1961
Terry Bradshaw9.19798.19818.19786.19774.19804.19753.1982
Len Dawson10.19689.19667.19626.19716.19643.1967
Philip Rivers10.20089.20109.20097.20134.20062.2011
Troy Aikman9.19959.19938.19927.19945.19981.1999
Kurt Warner10.200110.200010.19996.20083.2007
Aaron Rodgers10.20118.20138.20107.20125.20091.2008
Boomer Esiason10.19889.19869.19857.19894.1993
Milt Plum10.19608.19598.19587.19614.1964
John Hadl10.19738.19647.19675.19663.19702.19711.19681.1965
Trent Green9.20028.20038.20006.20056.2004
John Brodie10.197010.19659.19613.19682.1969
Billy Kilmer9.19728.19736.19745.19755.1971
John Elway7.19876.19986.19976.19934.19962.19951.1986
Daryle Lamonica8.19697.19727.19706.19684.1967
Warren Moon9.19888.19906.19895.19922.19971.1991
Tony Romo7.20096.20076.20065.20114.20083.2013
Tobin Rote9.19568.19635.19583.19573.19552.1951
Billy Wade8.19567.19586.19615.19593.19621.1963
Jim Hart8.19767.19755.19743.19773.19732.19782.1970
Joe Namath10.19727.19685.19695.19672.1966
Bob Griese9.19717.19775.19784.19733.19741.1976
Roman Gabriel8.19677.19737.19694.19703.1971
Ben Roethlisberger9.20057.20104.20074.20043.20122.2009
Ken Stabler10.19749.19764.19772.19731.19791.1975
Jim Kelly9.19908.19915.19894.1992
Parker Hall10.19399.19407.1941
Craig Morton9.19709.19695.19773.1981
Earl Morrall8.19687.19656.19634.1957
Bobby Thomason9.19557.19534.19512.19542.1952
Don Meredith8.19627.19665.19683.19651.1967
Bert Jones10.19768.19776.1975
Vinny Testaverde9.19987.19965.19933.1995
Dave Krieg8.19887.19864.19832.19922.1984
George Blanda10.19615.19604.19533.1954
Paul Christman8.19467.19477.1945
Rich Gannon8.20027.20015.19992.2000
Jeff Garcia8.20017.20005.20071.20031.2002
Daunte Culpepper9.20047.20036.2000
Jim Everett9.19896.19884.19942.1990
Mark Rypien10.19918.19893.1990
Cecil Isbell10.194210.1941
Mark Brunell8.19974.19993.19983.19962.2006
Brad Johnson7.20027.19995.19961.1997
Norm Snead8.19725.19654.19622.1967
Brian Sipe9.19807.19783.1976
Bernie Kosar10.19876.19862.19911.1988
Johnny Lujack9.19497.19512.1950
Tom Flores8.19666.19604.1963
Bill Nelsen9.19685.19704.1969
Joe Ferguson8.19756.19794.1981
Joe Theismann8.19836.19823.19791.1984
Steve McNair10.20036.20012.1999
Matt Hasselbeck7.20055.20024.20032.2007
Chad Pennington10.20028.2008
Matt Schaub7.20114.20104.20093.2008
Davey O'Brien9.19398.1940
Babe Parilli9.19623.19522.19642.19611.1966
Bill Kenney6.19875.19855.19841.1983
Chris Chandler8.19987.19972.2001
Donovan McNabb9.20068.2004
Phil Simms6.19905.19873.19852.1993
Neil Lomax8.19843.19883.19872.1983
Charley Johnson5.19724.19742.19652.19631.19691.1962
Bobby Hebert9.19924.19872.1989
Jeff George8.19995.19971.19951.1994
Jake Plummer6.20034.20053.20012.2004
Matt Ryan7.20085.20123.2011
Frank Ryan7.19636.19661.1964
Greg Landry8.19714.19762.1972
Vince Ferragamo7.19827.1980
Scott Mitchell8.19936.1995
Eddie LeBaron6.19524.19552.19591.1961
Jim Finks8.19523.19531.19551.1954
Lynn Dickey7.19846.1983
Danny White6.19814.19822.19851.1980
Carson Palmer8.20055.2006
Archie Manning6.19784.19792.1980
Steve Grogan5.19793.19833.19781.1977
Ron Jaworski10.19802.1979
Steve DeBerg10.19901.19891.1987
Jim Hardy8.19483.1950
Ed Brown7.19593.19631.1957
James Harris9.19742.1975
Steve Bartkowski6.19805.1983
Tony Eason6.19845.1986
Randall Cunningham10.19981.1990
Chris Miller6.19925.1991
Frank Filchock10.1944
Greg Cook10.1969
Jim Zorn7.19792.19811.1978
Doug Williams7.19812.19881.1982
Tommy Kramer10.1986
Erik Kramer8.19952.1998
Nick Foles10.2013
Pat Haden9.1977
Jay Schroeder7.19902.1986
Brian Griese9.2000
Michael Vick6.20102.20021.2011
David Garrard9.2007
Russell Wilson5.20134.2012
Ace Parker8.1939
Fred Enke6.19482.1953
George Ratterman8.1950
Rudy Bukich8.1965
Ken O'Brien8.1985
Neil O'Donnell5.19953.1992
Craig Erickson8.1994
Kerry Collins6.20022.1996
Doug Flutie4.20004.1998
Eli Manning6.20111.20121.2009
Robert Griffin8.2012
Bud Schwenk7.1942
Frankie Sinkwich7.1944
Adrian Burk6.19541.1951
Lamar McHan5.19572.1958
Cotton Davidson4.19603.1964
Virgil Carter7.1971
Wade Wilson7.1988
Steve Beuerlein6.19991.1993
Jim Harbaugh7.1995
Jeff Hostetler4.19913.1993
Gus Frerotte6.19961.2000
Damon Huard7.2006
Irv Comp6.1944
Jack Jacobs6.1947
Bob Celeri6.1951

References

References
1 For purposes of this post, I have excluded AAFC stats, but combined the AFL and NFL as one league.
2 Starting in 1937. Sorry, Arnie Herber, Dutch Clark, Paddy Driscoll, and Jimmy Conzelman. I also am excluding Ace Parker, who was more master of all trades than quarterback.
3 And it’s not even adjusted for SOS, like the GQBOAT post.
4 He also split time with other quarterbacks from time to time, which means his efficiency numbers don’t account for the fact that he wasn’t putting up the gross value that you might think. As for why he didn’t make the Hall of Fame, the typical reasons apply. He was competing with Van Brocklin, Tittle, Layne, Graham, and Unitas for accolades in the ’50s, and wound up disappointing by winning just 1 title.
5 Okay, Boomer Esiason is tied for the top 30. He’s also a borderline HOF candidate, IMO.
6 Note PFR lists Manning 12th in ANY/A that year, using 224 dropbacks instead of 224 pass attempts as the floor for qualifying. Since both San Francisco quarterbacks that year fit into that gray area, it’s not unreasonable to say Manning was more like the 11th best passer that year. But what’s the point in splitting hairs when the case is a slam dunk?
7 2014 pending, of course.
8 Let’s ignore the fact that Plunkett isn’t in the HOF, of course.
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